Unbabbled Episode 3: Adventure Playgrounds
How Adventure Playgrounds Shape Development, with playworkers Ali Wood and Jill Wood
Playworkers Ali Wood and Jill Wood talk about adventure playgrounds and the importance of free-play and risk-taking in a child’s development. Adventure playgrounds are environments where children create their own worlds and build their own play space with a variety of tools and scrap material: lumber, hammers, nails, house paint, yards of fabric, pallets, wooden crates, and plenty of time and freedom. On these sites, children are supported by adults trained in the professional practice of playwork, a unique approach that puts the child’s ideas and objectives first.
Where to buy Ali Wood’s book “Reflective Playwork”
Jill Wood’s Articles on Adventure Play:
More info on Bayou City Play:
Stephanie: 00:05 Hello and welcome to Unbabbled, a podcast that navigates the world of special education, communication delays and learning differences. We are your hosts, Stephanie Landis and Meredith Krimmel and we are certified speech and language pathologist who spend our days at The Parish School in Houston, helping children find their voices and connect with the world around them. Meredith couldn't be here today, so this is Stephanie Flying Solo. Today I'll be speaking with playworkers Ali Wood and Jill Wood. Allie has over 20 years of experience supporting children through play. She is co manager of the Meridian adventure playground in the United Kingdom and coauthor of the reflective play, work and instructional guide for parents and playworkers that promotes the role of play in a child's life. Jill Wood is the head of the adventure playground at The Parish School in Houston, Texas and founder of, Bayou City Play, a series of temporary play installations that spread out all over the Houston area. Ali and Jill will be telling us about each of their adventure playgrounds and sharing stories from their personal experiences. They'll also explain why they're so passionate about playwork and discuss the importance of play and risk taking in a child's development.
Stephanie: 01:12 Welcome. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Ali Wood and Jill Wood. Ali Wood is a Playworker and she's here in Houston for the Campference that we're hosting here at The Parish School. So welcome. We're very excited to have you. Will you first just start off by giving just a little bit about yourself, where you're from and what you do? So a small, small little, I thought everything about you, Huh? Okay.
Ali: 01:41 Um, yes I am a Playworker but I have a lot of that kind of easily quite wide ranging and how it's applied in practice. So I actually do, um, co- manage an adventure playground country in England in a very poor area. But I also write about Playworks. I research, um, uh, and over the years or have trained lots of the people I went and designed and delivered qualifications in play, work, et cetera. So it's all quite wide ranging and um, a lot of fun.
Stephanie: 02:17 So we have been actively bringing a adventure playground and playwork here into The Parish School. And Jill Wood, our librarian and playworker also has been doing a lot of work within the Houston community, but sadly it's not as well known in the US and in our area is it is overseas. Can you tell us a little bit about what playwork is and your adventure playground?
Ali: 02:41 Okay. Firstly I will say that the adventure playground here, if you don't know or cannot see is beautiful. It's really wonderful. It's a place where you can tell the children are really truly being themselves. Um, my playground is similar but different. But then adventure playgrounds are unique and shizzy because they reflect the children themselves that goes to this because the children help make them, build them, create them, do their stuff. And then, um, the one where I am and it's in a very core area, it's got quite a lot of big high structures. There's a lot of risk taking. We have a big fire pit. Um, we cook on the fire every day and we feed the children every day because most of them are hungry. Um, because many parents are at work or whatever. It is a very poor area. Um, and as to what Playworks is, right?
Ali: 03:36 playwork is perhaps the only profession I think of people working with children where there is a flattening of the hierarchy. So, um, so the, the, the adults, the adult playworker and the child are, are really exactly on the same level. And the playworker, uh, believes in the capability and competency of every child that is expressed through their playing. When they're, when children are playing, it's perhaps the time when they feel most alive, most free, um, most competent. And it's where they can take, they can take risks, they can make mistakes, they can find out, they can explore, et Cetera, et cetera. And so the job of a playworker is to support that. And sometimes that means creating the space where that can happen, but it also means pulling away and allowing them that space to make those mistakes, to try things out and to explore for themselves.
Ali: 04:38 Whether that's socially, you know, in terms of making a breaking friendships, whether that's physically in terms of what can I do, can I get up there? Can I fall down there? What will happen if I do? Um, emotionally, how does it feel to be like this? Can I really, can I be angry today? Because quite a lot of the time we suppressed children's anger. We don't give them a chance to explore it and deal with it and make it a creative force in their lives. Um, intellectually, because I think a adventure, playgrounds and places where children, they're almost like natural research of origins there when that child becomes a scientist. And so, you know, I've watched some of your children deal yesterday on this, the, what we're call it, a sun piece. I call it the sun dome and the hoses in there and the absolute absorption and immersion in these kids and working out what's happening.
Ali: 05:33 It's almost like they're natural physicists. Um, it's, uh, it's fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. So playworkers spend a lot of time creating space if he's awesome spacing and then watching and learning and supporting children to be free.
Stephanie: 05:48 I love that. I think that to me, coming from a speech pathology Lens, we see play as equally as important to building a child's overall development. But you're right and sometimes it's much more structured for us and sometimes we jump in and like, oh maybe we should play more like this. And I love that from the playwork point of view, all play is, you know, kind of equally important. And for parents and for other adults sometimes that's really hard to let kids explore that. It's hard to let them take risks. It's hard to let them explore all those emotions. I know that you have a book that discusses reflective play, where, can you speak a little bit about what that kind of means and what that reflection?
Ali: 06:33 okay. I think the lowest people wouldn't, like when you talk about reflective practice, and I ask a lot of people is I say, what does that mean?What it's about looking back and seeing something he went yes. And whether we can do it better next time. And I'll say that's the evaluation. Yeah, that's fleet. It's about why she's a part of it. Let you live. It's just a small part. So the reflective use, it actually does what it says on the tin. If you think of something that reflect what reflects an object that reflect back at you, it's a movement. And so actually what we do is we are taking the mirror because when children look like, and it has all sorts of impact on us. Um, whoever we are, we have automatic triggers just like we all have it. And the playworkers have them as well. We're not just all sort of, it'd be fine.
Stephanie: 07:25 Yeah. You're like, oh, maybe we shouldn't. But that's your own personal.
Ali: 07:31 That's right. And so, so the idea of reflective practice is that he also turns, turns the light on ourselves to say, why am I feeling, why is it that that kid wants me up? You know, why is it that I'm anxious when I see children doing that? Um, why is it that I find myself really wanting to do this and not wanting to do that? Why is it though I just said that or why is it that I didn't do that? So it turns the spotlight on us really because um, as we understand them cause adults quite often unintentionally are the biggest barrier to children's free play because we involved ourselves or we think we know better and actually plays the one area where children, yeah.
Stephanie: 08:17 That's fair. That's their work. I know you touched on emotions excel hard for initially parents and teachers and therapists, they see kids and the playground getting into even just a smart argument about who goes first and instinctually they want to jump in and fix it. But that's such a natural way for them to learn problem solving abilities and to work out that social give intake and how can we still work through this and be friends and you know, sometimes jumping in too fast, I know I need to jump in. It hinders them developing those situations later when maybe an adult isn't around. So instead of through it they just run away. And look for an adult's and play and on the playground is a perfect place for them to practice that you see? Yeah. Because it is a totally different way of looking at play and play grounds and your playground. Yeah. Uh, ours is on a private school campus so it's not open to the public very often. Is yours more open to the public?
Ali: 09:18 We do. Um, after school it's open on all day on a Saturday, it's open every day of school holidays. We also have school groups that come and visit us during the daytime at school term time and pupil referral groups and uh, still, um, and we are, we are a charity or that's this is, that's the sign was a not for profit thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. So we're a charity so we manage the whole thing so we don't own the land, we lease it from the local authority, uh, and it's fenced off cause it's located within a public park. Yes. That's right. Um, and it will, we, although we leased the land, they've kind of given us permission to do more. This whole holding on, which you need to frame terribly crowd.
Stephanie: 10:08 That's amazing. And did the parents come join when it's afterschool?
Ali: 10:14 We have, we have um, uh, kind of, uh, sort of ruiling that. Yes, there is a rule that says if you're under 7, you need to have a carer that comes or a parent with them. Um, if you're seven and under then parents can give permission permission for them to come alone and many do. Yeah. Um, but some parents of older children still want to come as well. Uh, and quite a lot of parents actually volunteer their time and services. They help us maintain structures. They help cooking with cooking. They help on plays games and allergies. I help out. I helped raise money because we're always trying to raise money and um, and I'm quite a lot of parents, Um, have also learned about how play can be important in their own mind.
Speaker 2: 10:59 That's what I was going to say. You have the benefit of having the parents, they are watching it. Have you had many stories or feedback of how parents shifted their play or their own child?
Ali: 11:10 All the time. I just as you come to the gate about there's a kind of a, a structure that's probably as high as the ceiling in this room. So not too high or low. It's high for a playground. Yeah. Um, so, but this particular structure, the children would like to jump off onto crash mats.
Stephanie: 11:30 Yeah, that would freat parents out.
Ali: 11:31 When they're younger they kind of just jump off. And sometimes you can see too, when you just stunning it, why do you then pull it out? We can't do it yet. To the other kids. That's okay. But as they get older and they get bigger, and then of course the, the risks need to get the kids, somersault off stuff, you know, and when heroines first seat, so, but then the free cam and I think terribly dangerous and we say, well, I changed, you know, in 10 years we've never had an accident. And that, that's the first thing that surprises them because they think it's, it's almost a given that it will do. Yeah. Um, and, and so we talk about, we actually ask them to watch, just watch the other children jumping and see what I can see the children are getting out of it and how much they're enjoying it and how much there I have to say learning probably as well because children do learn. That's not why they play, but they do learn from their playing. Um, and sometimes we will stand there and we'll have a word with parents because she gets some parents who go the other way and start saying, okay, come on, jump off. Don't be a wuss.
Ali: 12:38 And we're going, no, no, no, you don't do that. It's their decision. It's the child's decision and if they're not ready, don't push them. And then you get the other parents who stands, they say, Oh, are you alright? And we say, no, no, no, leave that be because otherwise your projecting your fear onto them and then the child becomes less competent and more likely to hurt themselves. So we thought we have sometimes bang patrons from certain days because we discovered that actually it was the parents fear if you like, it was kind of influencing the children. They were ending not having accidents. And as soon as we with parents to stop. Yeah, that's amazing. So we do, we do interfere a lot more. Is that Austin we think we do often for what seems like really good reasons, but they're not, yeah, it's just a whole shift. It's a whole shift. It's a whole new mind shift and it's quite, quite hard. One of the ways for people to understand it I think, or to get get into it is to always remember back when my client and um, and that's where we always start with, okay, try and remember where you were and what you did and how you felt and you believe in what you were doing if you weren't doing anything at all and how you felt particularly.
Ali: 14:01 And then people, suddenly you stood suddenly see the grins and people start and then you sign high. So what was common about all these experiences? And I also, it's freedom. It's freedom.
Stephanie: 14:15 It is because you hear so many people talking about though. Well, when I was a kid, we just went in the backyard and built this and like personally I grew up with cousins on a farm and we'd go like jump off of Hay Bales in the barn and it was freedom to explore the farm and do whatever and have that yeah. Exploration that we could build and manipulate and play and raom and the family. Anybody interfering or we, we do have, I think what's been going for quite a long time. Um, yeah.
Ali: 14:46 But um, a lot of the research that has been done in the last or 20, 30, 40 years, that back-up, that's approach for a lot of the research of our children's freedom to apply. He's really, really interesting. And um, there are that, there is research coming forward that shows the, actually the more that we did, are you familiar with the term helicopter parent, um, or harboring, we call hovering. What are the, um, the more of that that happens actually in the more delayed a child's development is because actually they don't get chance chances to be doing stuff for themselves to be becoming independent people.
Stephanie: 15:28 Yeah. So simple as tying your own shoe wear, keeping washing your own hair and yeah, playing on the playground, climbing up really high, going really fast on your bike. Yeah. These are all important lessons though. Yeah.
Ali: 15:44 There a low normal [inaudible] own experiences, but suddenly I've got less and less because we've become too protective.
Stephanie: 15:52 I know you touched on a little bit, um, about learning from the play and it seems like every toy in your, every educational experience now has to be learning. Like it's marketed. Like you must use this toy because it's going to teach you phonetics so that you can read, you have to use this toy because that's what it'll teach you, the fine motors that you could do this. Can you touch a little bit on one play being great for playing experience and two how you can still develop those skills through free. Play it off. Okay.
Ali: 16:24 Um, this might sound extreme. Tell me, tell me. I'm going to far. But I'm a bit cynical about tools. Yes. No, I agree. I see the toy industry actually, it doesn't really kill them that children grow the revolution decide house. No. Electronic Toys. Yeah. And I think annoying and it kind of takes away some creativity. Yeah. Um, and it does. Absolutely it does. And also I think, uh, I don't know if, do you have advertising for children's toys and merchandise here? Oh yeah. You must to. Yes. Cause she did, but he'd actually only become legal in the UK, but 30 years ago. Okay. Um, and um, that we suddenly saw things start to change because when you advertise directly to children that children get convinced they want that thing, they need that. And very often when they've got it, um, and I want it because they got an order. It's not what my thought in the bill as a short life. It doesn't show it off. And yet often they cost lots of money. And so parents are struggling to buy things. I think that children really want lead because of the industry. It looks up, we, we'll need it. I don't think we necessarily do
Stephanie: 17:41 people joke after holidays and birthdays that the kids wanting to play with the box more than me saying, yeah, it's true. It's true of children.
Ali: 17:50 You is, you can do far more. Um, we think was that done half a self builtin purpose, you know, which some of these toys half you can do far more and you know, if he had trouble these children, what suicide actually. Okay, can you give me a book here? That piece of road, a tarp hauling, uh, and, and some balls to play with me. I wouldn't do that. But actually thought of those sorts of things are available. They'll come up with in variety possible games. We know that those things, most of which cost very little, nothing got resolved in the first lesson. And that's the beauty I think of saying let's, let's dispense with tall use. You know, I'm not going to say all toys are rubbish. Um, but I mean a bike, I think is wonderful. Yeah, absolutely. Having bikes and stuff scape it an awful, yeah, but a lot of the stuff is not, is not made not necessarily, and actually having stuff, natural stuff and reuse stuff that children can just do it. They like me. It's amazing watching, watching him work at, at sorted out and make sense of it. I thought it's, yeah, it is.
Stephanie: 19:03 And as you mentioned, they are a little scientists out there. The best way to learn about physics is to go out and build things and make catapults and see-saws and live it the whole body experience and try and fail and try again in
Ali: 19:21 In Jill's park here, there is a a wonderful big, is it water pipe? The enormous, the black oh yeah. It's, it's a cover. It's just a big black plastic cover. Yeah. From, from a coma and it's uh, probably like five feet. Um, but what she, some of these older, older children play with that yesterday, moving it around the side, getting in it, walking, walking in [inaudible] and making it move around so that they go upside down and backwards and all the rest of it and trying to climb on it then trying to make it and go certain directions and then finally they can't do that and it's got this, it's just just that on its own. And yet who would have thought that piece of covert pipe would be so fascinating and yet they spend nearly an hour and a half. Yeah. And she has to do lose pipe like six times a month they do with that. So it never gets old. Yeah. It has this long extended life children just why to understand the world and do that through in the stuff to play with and it is, it was absolutely lovely to just sit and watch these children, Mr doing nothing and they don't need, I mean it's lovely because I could also see the staff that are here, they've got really good relationships with the children but they don't force that on them. But they are there for them if needed. And then the children's songs, songs and both you, yeah, they'll come and ask me stuff but it's a different relationship than a teacher because awesome. When they, they know that I can kind of do almost whatever they like because that permission you say and not safe to use that emotional decided to do that. But I haven't got to keep them in and say, Oh, I thought that that might have, I can just try and lift the stock just to pull them.
Stephanie: 21:23 They have, we have very, as we've just said, very intuitive and very thoughtful playwork staff here. I've, they come and support our kids during even just recess time sometimes during the week. And it's been amazing to watch them just move a bucket and play something else closer to a specific child. And then that child that had been having difficulty joining a different play suddenly was part of the play around the bucket and that was out without even words and direction and you know, stopping the child and saying, Hey, come play with this. Or going up to the other kids and saying like, stop not playing with this child. Maybe you should play that game. It was just the lightest touch. That's what you guys use, right? The legacy side.
Ali: 22:13 You want to use willing to, to, um, because actually to have that kind of intuition comes with crafting sweep and it's quite hard. It's got real depth. Yeah. You know, to, to, to actually kind of see the world through that child's own and he's, and therefore get an appreciation of what it is they're trying to do. What did he say one, what led you to do that and not being able to just use this so
Stephanie: 22:37 it was so smooth and, yeah, watching from the outside as an adult, I could see where they were going, but the kids were so wrapped up in their own play, but they were just like, oh, a bucket. I'll go there. And it was just exactly what that child needed to join into that group play and have that confidence and then to start building without the adults forcing like that's social interaction naturally on their own. Yeah, it was quite brilliant to watch.
Ali: 23:03 Great. You see that will be quite a different way of looking at it.
Stephanie: 23:09 Um, I noticed that you got at your adventure playgrounds, you guys have worked with another charity and another organization to bring in people with different abilities and learning differences and other things. Can you speak about how that play might change? I know that some parents might feel like, oh, my child has motor difficulties or they have these challenges. This might be too much for them. But you guys bring it in and make it accessible.
Ali: 23:36 Yes. We originally started off, um, by having a partner, she believes very concerned though you sort of organization who works specifically disciple comes with a whole range of different impediments, things of all ages. And so initially those children started coming with one to one key workers, et cetera. Um, but very often those children end up coming alone on their own because once they find their fit and the other kids, because you get regular cubes are just so used to kids of all kinds being about. And it's just not, it's not an issue at all. And so they ended up making friends with other kids. And I was telling the story yesterday, I've, uh, there's, there's, uh, who's a young man now. He's, he's almost 19. And he first started coming to us when he was about eight or nine, and, uh, he was autistic. He had very challenging behavior, had no fan of, very, very difficult to relate to two other kids, et cetera.
Ali: 24:38 Um, but periodically it is now 10 years later, he pops in and really pops in the, uh, he comes in, he goes hi to the people on the desk, and then he walks down to the big leggings swing at the other end of the playground, which is really hard. And for some reason his particular competency was always, he got the reputation for being able to go to the highest the Mq has ever gone to. Alright. And he did, but he just knew that bit where if not to go any higher, you know. Um, and so he comes in and all those 19 comes in and goes down there and I think goes to have it. It's almost like the white parts. All the kids get them off. You know, Jack, it's Jack and Jack [inaudible] and he does towards, or anyone done, it just gets on and he almost looks the loop and then he gets off and then he smiled a little kids and says northern one day and then he leaves.
Ali: 25:35 It doesn't delete tat my fix and he's gotten, you know, so yeah, he's a, we actually have a lot of autistic children who have been excluded from school locally. So we actually have an, I've been homeschooled by their parents who sometimes at their wits end. So we have quite a lot of them coming in all day time as well. Um, and we actually find that particularly for children with Adhd or autism, that actually the adventure playground is almost like the perfect place for them because there's no structure. They're not being forced into anything. And that's where they kind of find it wrong modus operandi. Um, and they actually start to get on with each other and talk to each other in a way that sometimes the school sets up just never suited them. It was too structured for them. Um, so yeah, you'd be kind of works.
Ali: 26:26 And so we have new children coming up the time by Sun Lowe and young people as well. No, they bring down young people one night a week and it just blossoms.
Jill: 26:36 I love hearing about how much a part of the community your playground is when, um, when you talk about homeschool families or groups, it just seems like it's the center of life for a lot of
Ali: 27:00 Yeah, it's, it's interesting. It was, it's there, right? It's actually not as hard as I actually call it. [inaudible]. Um, I'm originally, we started a playground, you know, just for children, six to 13. And that was what we started as children, six to 13. It's my note to the grave, you know, and that's kind of happened. It's evolved or most outside of the cord. And I think part of it, the reason for that was that we were funded by the local authority and the [inaudible].
Ali: 27:32 But by that time, a lot of people have, a lot of the local companies are already appreciated the value of what went on there for their children. And they just rose up and said, it's not going. We will do what we can. And we had this mass summer where there were parents on the, uh, on the car park. Same sent Matt that close by kind of cake sales. Um, we were playing around quiz nights. I run discos, I had head shaves, event, you name it. Um, and that, you know, will just come and work here. It has to stay open. And I think that's, I would, I don't think I would ever have thought that actually pulling money out of something would have been so valuable. That's actually, it was because what it meant was that called it took ownership of it at that point. It's common flourished since then.
Stephanie: 28:26 And how same for the community to recognize the importance and need of play and that space for their kids. That's really quite wonderful. Well, I think there's a big, there's a big need for it. There's a big need for in big cities and smaller cities and rural areas to have a place for community hub. I think that more and more educators and parents and community organizers are realizing just how important play and free play is. And hopefully the pendulum is swinging back from sterilizing every single playground to the point where they're not very fun to, you know, allowing for some of that like risk and openness and community revolving around playgrounds and play groups and places for kids to just be then yeah, absolutely.
Ali: 29:19 And they will show us the children and the next generation, uh, you know, as we, we do in that region, you know, I find myself learning from it near went right, I'm actually the way the world is going, we need the next generation to be as individualized as possible and unimaginative constable to with the very tuff solutions that know how this is going to have to get a in a whole variety of areas. I think it's actually getting and having that freedom of running throughout one's child that actually stimulates that kind of approach that will come up with some of those kinds of solutions. Whereas if we kind of school, uh, w madness, isn't it the sense of an education thing. But if we kind of school children into basically be what's going before, we will find that we're stuck little still.
Stephanie: 30:14 So as we've mentioned, there aren't many opportunities for adventure playgrounds here in the u s or even just around Texas. And the one in Houston that we love isn't always open to the public. So for other people who don't have access to that, do you have any tips for them to how they can kind of set up a more open space in their own homes or backyards that might make it not quite as huge of a thing as an adventure playground but provide their own child with a little more of that openness?
Ali: 30:48 Absolutely. I think for all parents to actually, um, take a little bit more of a box that you see in watching the children play and making sure that they're inviting their children's friends around and vice versa. Maybe starting with things like, uh, um, a few parents nds that can almost like a rotor to go to the local park or something. So actually groups of children can go and feel quite safe. It, yeah. And it doesn't always have to just be you, the parent with your children because we all know that there is time. He's actually trying to actually work stuff out with other parents and networking and to do stuff like that and finding the places in your neighborhood that are of interest to children, um, that are call spaces. It doesn't necessarily have to be the traditional park with the swings in the round about it.
Ali: 31:38 So whatever. I haven't seen any of those apps, but actually those are quite boring, really aren't they. Um, so finding the other places in the neighborhoods and the more wild places around that exist and letting children explore those, you know, if children have bikes going out and live on this, but going out and not all, some folks as well to have some bike rides. Um, there's a really good book actually written by an American called Light Lanza called playbourhood. Oh, it's really worth a read because what he does is he is, he decided that he wanted to be one of these parents that actually gave his own children free range playing. Um, and so what he did in his own neighborhood, but then he's also looked at loads of other neighborhoods across the states where that has happened and they're all different in different kinds of ideas.
Ali: 32:30 You know, people who've been tightened, the fence is done in their backyards so that actually chewing on free riding across all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas that what work everywhere. But finding what works where you are, it's a really good book. It's worth it for all parents who wants to make him think that
Stephanie: 32:49 innately people want that connection with their neighbors and their neighborhood and it's just finding the time and the place. And he said, what works for your own particular
Ali: 32:57 there was a movement in the UK, which I think is taking off here.
Jill: 33:02 My wish that is, that's my greatest wish. Also in addition to to adventure play here, I have this group called Bayou City Play. I would, that is where I would like to take it, where we could do street closures. We would help people make that happen because there are so many children in my neighborhood and I have a five year old and she has a ton of friends in the neighborhood, but we all sort of get locked into our own world and our own minds. And if a street was closed and we knew we could meet our neighbors there, who would be there, you be there every time she would make us go, I'm told it's a good point.
Ali: 33:48 And it's happened quite a lot in different cities across the UK. Um, what it does is it builds community because originally it songs is, it just applies for children's by let's close the street. But in the end, even the people without children come out and start sitting in and watching and then taking parts of, and then you get some dads who come on start games, often other things like that. And it's a, it's a wonderful can play actually builds from Newton's, you'd just put your.
Stephanie: 34:16 oh, I often encourage adults to play in their own ways to relieve stress and reconnect their child. Yeah.
Ali: 34:26 So yeah, best of it. It's not actually too difficult. Once you've got the over there kind of getting the license to close the street and you've let everybody in the street, no people will come out because they're curious and they'll just, other children will just go, whoa, start to play. Yeah. I had a Bingo, you're away.
Stephanie: 34:46 Well, as we wrap this up, we've been asking everyone for one piece of advice that they would give to parents or educators. That's just their go to best piece of advice and it can be anything that's really specific or really broad like listen to your mother or no go play or whatever you feel is your go to that you'd like to impart on our listeners.
Jill: 35:10 Yes. Um, to let your child will be bored. That is really important. I think that as a parent, um, it's hard for me, it's as hard as watching them take risks or we're have big emotions, but boredom is so important. And on a playground for him is the beginning point. Like we know if a child is bored, something really about, yeah, we're still doing it. So dependent on adults sorting that they never have to. What are we going to do today? I'm more and when you give me my iPad
Ali: 35:50 And that's the trouble with electronic guidance, et Cetera, because they're an easy fix and suddenly they're now an easy entertainment as opposed to having to think for yourself and really knows the skills that we want to most of them. I think other fellow, I think my mind would be, um, quite simply back off. Um, actually just back off and watch children. Let them teach teaching.
Stephanie: 36:19 Okay, cool. Awesome. Are really important. What? It was really, really wonderful to talk to you. I said glad that you agreed to do this and I'm really excited for everyone to get introduced to adventure playgrounds and playwork. And it's something very new and different for a lot of us, but I think that it's in a resonate with a lot of people.
Stephanie: 36:44 Thank you for listening to the unbearable podcast. For more information on today's episode, including links to Jill, what's articles on adventure play read to by Allie Wood's book reflected Playworks and more information about Bayou city play. Please see our episode description or more information on The Parish School. You can visit our website @ www.theparishschool.org and if you're not already, don't forget to subscribe to the Unbabbled podcast on your app of choice. A special thank you to Stig Daniels, Katie McCarthy and Amy Tanner for their hard work behind the scenes. Thanks again for listening.